67 replies to this topic

[forger]

Hello, because I've seen some repeated usage of this and not for a good reason, I just thought it might be good to make a poll in order to figure out how many of us really use this. It's nice as a proof of concept, but not as a permanent option.
Hiding the work of AutoIt is like inviting them to abuse it. There should be *something* that shows that AutoIt is working, e.g. a small tooltip of some sort on one of the edges of the screen.
Also, if that isn't satisfatory, you could add it as a global command line parameter, like: program.exe -notrayicon
And please, if you think of any reasons that notrayicon is a must, I'd like to hear them out

The only reason I could think of is when another trayicon is assigned. If that's the case, couldn't it be just #ReplaceTrayIcon or to be verified whether other tray commands are assigned in the script?

[Xenobiologist]

Hi,

I think just showing the icon will cause nothing for preventing scripts doing bad things. I can set some registry keys within a few msecs ad so on.

I like the option, because sometimes the user currently working shouln't realize, that there is something doing good stuff for him in the background.

Just my 2 cents.

So long,

Mega

[Valik]

AutoIt is not the simple automation language it once was. People write full-fledged applications in AutoIt now. It's more than just simple background automation. Background automation is more suited to the tray icon because presumably it will do it's job and go away. However, it does not suit applications. I don't find it far fetched that people may run an AutoIt program on their system from boot-time to shutdown. In these contexts, providing a useless tray icon is not desirable, especially one that may allow the user to pause or exit the program using harder-to-detect methods.

This topic is quite pointless and only shows a narrow-minded view of the subject. If you want to see AutoIt useless in the hands of script kiddies, we can do that, but AutoIt will be useless in the hands of anybody. People giving AutoIt a bad name come with the territory, deal with it. Rather than waste time and energy with pointless threads like this on how to censor AutoIt to curb malicious activity, focus energy on promoting the good things about AutoIt and how it's far more than just a tool used to write virii.

[slightly_abnormal]

there was a couple of slack jawed bumbling baffoons trying to hide processes from taskmanager, which is doesnt make much sence unless they're using it with evil intentions

i think #notrayicon is good.. because who wants to clutter up the tray when not its necessary?


[edit] the way i wrote this post doesn't sound right

Edited by slightly_abnormal, 14 June 2006 - 06:07 AM.

[forger]

AutoIt is not the simple automation language it once was. People write full-fledged applications in AutoIt now. It's more than just simple background automation. Background automation is more suited to the tray icon because presumably it will do it's job and go away. However, it does not suit applications. I don't find it far fetched that people may run an AutoIt program on their system from boot-time to shutdown. In these contexts, providing a useless tray icon is not desirable, especially one that may allow the user to pause or exit the program using harder-to-detect methods.

This topic is quite pointless and only shows a narrow-minded view of the subject. If you want to see AutoIt useless in the hands of script kiddies, we can do that, but AutoIt will be useless in the hands of anybody. People giving AutoIt a bad name come with the territory, deal with it. Rather than waste time and energy with pointless threads like this on how to censor AutoIt to curb malicious activity, focus energy on promoting the good things about AutoIt and how it's far more than just a tool used to write virii.

I know, I agree on what you said, but.. OK, autoit is at its peek right now, and I'd hate to see it go away if an antivirus company added the whole autoit code, just because a handful of people acted foolishly. Forgive me for being conservative,but that could get everyone in serious trouble, i.e. losing important applications and (why not?) data.
I'm using AutoIt for keeping some important stuff, but I guess that's the risk I take. I always make several encrypted/compressed backups of course.

I kind of don't know how to feel about this; it's like fighting C++ to be censored (as you said) I'd love to see it develop as a unique programming language considering its ease of learning.

I like to see the things from their good side and their bad side. As a bad side there are some commands that are depend upon scripters' ethics level. If you're a h4x0r you brake it, if you're a lamer you brake it, if you're a system administrator you make something valuable out of it and promote this heluva great program But as you said, we might just have to deal with that.
As a good part of AutoIt, I'm already working on something similar to merijn's brute force uninstaller, an irc bot remover that will act upon some specific commands and using a list of several file names & reg keys/values that are common to a great deal of malware programs. I'm halfway to finishing it; that's my praising of autoit's good parts

However, if you really think this topic is pointless or not worth a place in the idea lab, then place it in the chat to continue as a simple discussion or completely remove it It was simply a suggestion and it does have a point, it's the title of the topic.

Edited by forger, 14 June 2006 - 06:46 AM.

[flyingboz]

autoit is at its peek right now,

I disagree vehemently... It's peak is still in the future....A3 is a living, vibrant language. I have several utilities written that my clients use from startup to shutdown to handle things like window managment, file / directory monitoring, server status , etc. So much so, that I've placed feature requests for au3 to support both console and service application modes.

and I'd hate to see it go away if an antivirus company added the whole autoit code, just because a handful of people acted foolishly.

You can't control either the overzealous malware "white hat" protectors or the hacker / skript kiddie idiots that poison the environment just so everyone else can live in the filth.

Accept the fact that power can be abused. Take the steps you feel are necessary to protect yourself.

edit: changes for clarity

Edited by flyingboz, 14 June 2006 - 02:16 PM.

[Locodarwin]

Forger,

We could also ban people from driving automobiles - because someone with ill intent could potentially use one as a deadly weapon.

[Jos]

Banning #NoTrayIcon and Opt("TrayIconHide", 1) is not going to solve anything.
We have had many lengthy discussions on adding #NoTrayIcon, because Opt("TrayIconHide", 1) was showing the icon for a very brief moment for the very reason you are stating. So people just replaced the standard ICON with a transparent Icon to avoid showing it for a brief moment.

I am using the #NoTrayIcon a lot for background scripts that we use when tweaking PC's in my company and we don't need to inform our users about. They would only get concerned when suddenly and extra tray icon is shown for no obvious reason to them.

[Valuater]

AutoIt is not the simple automation language it once was. People write full-fledged applications in AutoIt now. It's more than just simple background automation. Background automation is more suited to the tray icon because presumably it will do it's job and go away. However, it does not suit applications. I don't find it far fetched that people may run an AutoIt program on their system from boot-time to shutdown. In these contexts, providing a useless tray icon is not desirable, especially one that may allow the user to pause or exit the program using harder-to-detect methods.

This topic is quite pointless and only shows a narrow-minded view of the subject. If you want to see AutoIt useless in the hands of script kiddies, we can do that, but AutoIt will be useless in the hands of anybody. People giving AutoIt a bad name come with the territory, deal with it. Rather than waste time and energy with pointless threads like this on how to censor AutoIt to curb malicious activity, focus energy on promoting the good things about AutoIt and how it's far more than just a tool used to write virii.

Very well said Valik!

8)

[herewasplato]

...And please, if you think of any reasons that notrayicon is a must, I'd like to hear them out ...

Not a "must", but take a look at this code:

http://www.autoitscript.com/forum/index.ph...ndpost&p=185158

The main script can show an icon, but having several more AutoIt icons flash by might not be good.

[MrSmiley]

...and we don't need to inform our users about. They would only get concerned when suddenly and extra tray icon is shown for no obvious reason to them.

I agree!
Not every computer user is a computer OWNER, and folks who have home computers often forget that businesses need to be able to manage their equipment as THEY see fit.

There's plenty of stuff that needs to happen on my systems that users simply don't need to know about. When something unexpected happens, a phone call/email/conversation invariably follows, and sometimes these things escalate up the chain of command until I'm trying to explain to a completely non-technical administrator why someone has a funny icon somewhere. No thanks...

I also have users who freak out when ANYTHING unexpected happens. I once had a woman practically in tears because she'd accidentally clicked "arrange icons by date" on her desktop, and suddenly she couldn't function at all. I had to painstakingly rearrange her icons for her until it "looked right."

I'd also add that there's already a ton of cruft in the "system notification area" as Microsoft calls it, and anything that reduces that clutter is AOK with me.

The security benefit of hiding the icon is minimal, truly malicious users won't be stopped by taking this away, and many victims of that malware wouldn't notice the dang icon in the first place, so the actual number of people this would help is way smaller than those it would hurt.

The option to hide the icon exists, but it is off by default. This is the most ethical way to handle this sort of thing. Allow it, but don't promote it.

[forger]

to all: well put, didn't think about those reasons *backing up*

[AutoItKing]

Auto"It" should be called Auto"Everything"

[taurus905]

However, if you really think this topic is pointless or not worth a place in the idea lab, then place it in the chat to continue as a simple discussion or completely remove it It was simply a suggestion and it does have a point, it's the title of the topic.

forger,
Never let anyone convince you that you are 'wasting your time and energy on a pointless thread', that you feel is relevant, by telling you to 'get over it'. The open exchange of ideas promotes growth through understanding. And I feel this is just one reason AutoIt has developed into the fantastic tool it is today.

There will always be morons who will abuse this power; as there will always be egomanical, book-burners who want to keep everyone else in the dark by belittling them into self-censorship.

If you want to know how people feel; ask the question.
I agree with you that this topic may not belong in the 'Idea Lab' forum. But it does belong.

BTW, I used #NoTrayIcon for the first time in a script yesterday and found it very useful.
taurus905

[Valik]

But it does belong.

Why does it belong? People's opinions on the matter are irrelevant, the feature is not going to be removed. All this thread provides is an opportunity for people to evangelize a subject that doesn't need discussion. It's about as useful as discussing whether the world is flat or round.

[taurus905]

It's about as useful as discussing whether the world is flat or round.

If there are people who still think the world is flat, (and I'm sure there are in some remote corner of this world, but hopefully not on this forum ) then they deserve to be told the truth. And they deserve a valid explaination as well. Not just, "because I know it and I told you, so get over it". People deserve a little more respect, no matter how irrelevant anyone thinks about their viewpoint.
I know this is off-topic, but it still needs to be said.
taurus905

[Valik]

If there are people who still think the world is flat, (and I'm sure there are in some remote corner of this world, but hopefully not on this forum ) then they deserve to be told the truth. And they deserve a valid explaination as well. Not just, "because I know it and I told you, so get over it". People deserve a little more respect, no matter how irrelevant anyone thinks about their viewpoint.
I know this is off-topic, but it still needs to be said.
taurus905

You want to talk respect? Let me present you with some hypothetical perspectives that show a complete lack of respect. Questioning the developer's choice of language features by creating threads to find out how much they are used can be considered disrespectful. How about not having all the facts on a subject (when they are readily available) and creating topics on them questioning the wisdom of those who do have all the facts - that's disrespectful.

The next time you want to throw around expressions like "deserve respect", stop for just a second and realize that your perspective of what respect is may not be the only perspective. If I actually cared about respect or thought it was more than some idiotic contrivance of pathetic human society, I'd say all this polite rot people carry on about where there are "no stupid questions" and "no pointless topics" is disrespectful to people who know the answers and know the answers are easily available.

The world is nothing but perspective. What seperates me from you in that regard is I willingly disregard all others right to perspective although I do realize that is there. I do not make pretentious speeches that my perspective is superior by throwing out strong phrases like "deserve respect" which I find ridiculous.

[taurus905]

Valik,
For me to say that you are the most disrepectful person on this forum would be an understatement. There are countless posts by you over the years that show your total disregard for anyone who has even the slightest difference of opinion.

You are not only disrepectful, but you are a bully. And I don't like bullies.

You need to get out from behind the safety of you computer screen and experience life in the real world. Maybe then you would loose that 'holier than thou' attitude.

I wish you had the guts to walk down to your corner bar and have a few beers with the locals. With your demeanor, I could see you on the floor next to that chip on your shoulder and your teeth.

And if you don't like the way I feel about a developer who spreads the poison you do on this forum, then I have one thing to say to you. Get over it. And while you're at it, get over yourself. You are not all that.

I have always said that everyone deserves to be told the truth, atleast once. Well, I have told you, so I will no longer reply directly to you because you are not worth my time.
taurus905

[nfwu]

If there are people who still think the world is flat, (and I'm sure there are in some remote corner of this world, but hopefully not on this forum )

Sorry, but I just had to stick this in.

Have you heard of the Flat Earth Society?
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskop...arthsociety.htm

#)

Edited by nfwu, 25 June 2006 - 10:00 AM.

[Valik]

So pretentious, let me point out exactly why you come off as an idiotic hypocrite with that post.

Valik,
For me to say that you are the most disrepectful person on this forum would be an understatement. There are countless posts by you over the years that show your total disregard for anyone who has even the slightest difference of opinion.

This is where you are wrong. I don't mind a difference of opinion, but I do mind a difference of opinion fueled by ignorance. Most of the time, people who try to express a difference of opinion to me do not know anything about what they are talking about. If somebody can present a different opinion backed up with knowledge, I have no problem.

You are not only disrepectful, but you are a bully. And I don't like bullies.

You need to get out from behind the safety of you computer screen and experience life in the real world. Maybe then you would loose that 'holier than thou' attitude.

I don't believe I'm the one adopting the holier than thou attitude right now. It looks to me like your tirade is highly condescending to me in a manner in which you are criticizing my condescending manner onto others. That's not only a prime example of a holier than thou attitude, it's flat out hypocrisy because you are trying to tell me to do something you are doing in the same breath.

I wish you had the guts to walk down to your corner bar and have a few beers with the locals. With your demeanor, I could see you on the floor next to that chip on your shoulder and your teeth.

What an absolutely absurd thing to say. You make three assumptions here. First, I don't drink alcohol and can't tolerate the presence of drunk fools so the odds of me going to a bar for a drink are wedged somewhere between zero and none. Second, how can you even begin to question whether or not have I the guts to do something like that? It's absolutely absurd. Lastly, who said I have a chip on your shoulder? Everybody assumes loads of things about my posts which are simply untrue. More on that later. Oh, and violence doesn't solve anything unless it involves the loss of life. Are you prepared to bring about my death to teach me a lesson?

And if you don't like the way I feel about a developer who spreads the poison you do on this forum, then I have one thing to say to you. Get over it. And while you're at it, get over yourself. You are not all that.

Do you honestly think I care how you feel about me? If you honestly think that, you're an even bigger idiot than I stated above. Oh, and you're assuming I'm stuck on myself. Assumptions are bad, they make an ass out of you and... well, just you mostly, everybody already knows I'm an ass.

I have always said that everyone deserves to be told the truth, atleast once. Well, I have told you, so I will no longer reply directly to you because you are not worth my time.
taurus905

Another example of the holier than thou attitude. You just said you're too good to talk to me. But you're trying to tell me not to act better than people. Umm, hello? Hypocrite in aisle three? Oh, and you're also a coward if you don't tell the truth every time you speak. If you want to use a strong word like "deserves", everybody "deserves" to be told the truth always, not just once.

This is so outrageously amusing to me. Despite what you and many other people think I do not have a chip on my shoulder. Despite what people think, I am not angry when I make posts on this forum. I simply do not conform to the same standards of society that you do. My perspective on virtually everything is atypical. Once you grow up and stop trying to make me conform to some irrelevant pre-conceived notion of what a human being is, you'll begin to understand me - as much as I ever allow at any rate. Quite frankly, there is not a living soul on this forum who knows anything about me.

As I said previously, life is about perspective. Based on your reaction, you are quite incapable or completely unwilling to view life through anybody else's glasses, especially if they aren't rose-tinted. All my previous post was meant to do was make you stop for a minute and think. About the only thing you stopped and thought about, judging by the text, was how better than me you consider yourself. That in and of itself, is not really worth mention, it's the glaringly hypocritical method you did it with which makes it so deliciously fun.