Requesting permission from the AutoIt Team regarding Freenode IRC

[TheDcoder]

btw, Thanks @RTFC!

[RTFC]

I know what permission is, I was asking about persmission (see your thread title).

Edited April 18, 2016 by RTFC

[TheDcoder]

I am so prone to typos, I just corrected a typo in my UDF minutes ago:

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/75/753292d126da17abca56d2abe3adfa173dcb360cf3594b4b66153e27244ebd36.jpg

[iamtheky]

Wait, you strongly disagree about the number of active users in IRC vs Facebook or Twitter?  Is your google broken?

[willichan]

1 hour ago, iamtheky said:

Wait, you strongly disagree about the number of active users in IRC vs Facebook or Twitter?  Is your google broken?

You got my curiosity.  What does Google show you about IRC usage?

The most recent study I could find was from 2000, and showed a collective 306,573 users (up from 200-300 users in 1991), with projections to break 500,000 by 2001.  That particular study only focused on 6 networks.  Despite the bashing that non-IRC users like to make, the number of IRC networks is still growing, including the addition of regional networks.  You can look HERE at a partial list of networks, though that list is 2 years old, and does not contain many of the networks (missing FreeNet, which is where TheDcoder has the ##AutoIt channel).

 

I don't think TheDcoder was challenging the user stats of facebook or twitter in general.  I think he is challenging the notion that no one used IRC or that the user base is marginal.  The ##AutoIt channel participation is small at the moment, but that is only because it was only started up recently, and it takes time to make people aware of it.  It is growing.

IRC is not for everyone.  If you do not want to use it, don't.

What TheDcoder wants "Permission" for is to be able to call his channel an official channel.  Official channels do draw in more users than unofficial channels.  There are also more things that an official channel operators can be set up do to from an administrative standpoint that unofficial channel operators cannot.

 

[iamtheky]

Half a million is the latest stats Ive seen.  Though I imagine the count does not include those on TOR.

And I am not a non-IRC user, I am a former IRC user.  I used mIRC for years and was active on many channels.  I was also an active user of BBS's prior to that, but I am not going to assume that there is still a large community for that either, despite the nostalgia provided by MUDs.

Quote

IRC is not for everyone.  If you do not want to use it, don't.

I will take you up on that offer, however my point was that if a service that has a user base of 1.56 billion and is actually crawled by the search engines does not accumulate AutoIt users, then expect similar results.  Also, you dont see @JLogan3o13 hyping the LinkedIn group eventhough it has the added benefits of requiring no additional software and puts your work in a light that could be viewed by potential employers.

Just because you can do something doesnt mean it has a usefulness, and the number of people that wander IRC with no intent and would stumble upon a scripting channel and then engage it with any interest is probably a floating point digit close to zero.

You got your knowledge right here, you should return your knowledge to the same place.  Keeping this forum alive and healthy is the number 1 goal.

 

Edited April 18, 2016 by iamtheky

[willichan]

I have no beef with the point you are making, I just think you are missing the point of having the IRC.

It serves a very different purpose than the forum does.  You are right, that learned knowledge should be shared on the forum to benefit other members.  That is encouraged in the IRC channel as well.

The real benefit of the IRC is the ability to have a real-time conversation, and solicit feedback that may not really be of benefit to the forum, or may only be pertinent to a specific project.  We have questions related to specific projects on the forum all the time, but those messages really do not benefit the community, and a real-time discussion with a few people can get that user on their feet and running quickly, rather than spending a couple of days soliciting feedback and asking clarifying questions.

One example:

 During a discussion on the IRC channel today, one user described a project he was working on, and was evaluating what data storage method would best suit this particular project.  Within a matter of only a few minutes, we were able to ask follow up questions, get his answers, provide our feedback, and answer his follow up questions.  He now has a good direction to go on, and it took less than 10 minutes.  That discussion, since it was specific to his project, and not easily generalized, would not have been of benefit to the community on the forum.  That conversation was fast and valuable to that user, and could have potentially taken days to reach the same results on the forum.

 

General "how do I" questions are perfect for the forum, as they can benefit others looking for the same information.  On the other hand, "which methodology is best for my specific situation" questions, rarely benefit the community, and really only need to be taken to the forum if noone on the IRC has input to provide.  In many cases, though, they can receive the input they need that is specific to them, and get it quickly.

The other benefit is that a user does not need to fear a silly question being archived for all to see for years to come.  They can ask their question, and (in general) is gone withing the space of a few hours.

But as I said.  The REAL benefit is in the real time exchange.

[iamtheky]

fair points, though from that I am missing the advantage over chatbox.  And while the speed of discussion may improve, I would contend there is value to be gained from the discourse.  Even with storage, whenever someone gets crazy with their INI, there shortly follows a legit lesson in using the SQLite UDF.

I do have a different philosophy though:

There is a reason that the OP is not allowed to close their topic when they have their answer, its because the answers help the community, and rarely is the original question the final question that is answered.  And tomorrow there might be a better answer that should be added to that thread (see every regexp thread ever).  Very few folk here are doing something original enough that no one else benefits.  I am one of the few people who post Enterprise scripts/questions (as noted by my greater than 90% of posts in examples and GH&S with 0 replies), but that doesnt mean I should bury those posts on StackOverflow or Technet in hopes of getting rapid feedback.

 

[JohnOne]

I don't see the harm of an IRC channel, but the point about fast answers on IRC just does not hold.

If the people sat waiting on the IRC channel answered the same questions in GHAS forum, what would be the difference?

It's not like a post is not available to answer straight away, I've seen hundreds of those scenarios mentioned achieved in the same time frame in GHAS.

Plus the people on IRC channel are making a large effort to justify it's existence and spending a large amount of their time there to make it work.

My guess is that in 6 months we will never hear about it again.

just as well, I thought IRC was only for paedo's looking to find paedo pictures

[JohnOne]

What are, if any, the privacy and security concerns of using IRC?

[JLogan3o13]

@JohnOne it is more the security of the client than anything. The basic issue is it has been around since 1988, and a lot of information is sent plain text over a single port (6667 IIRC). Various clients attempt to wrap security around the protocol, but like anything to varying degrees. I still believe the majority of servers do not employ SSL/TLS, which leaves the channel open to attack. The biggest issue, like most technologies almost 30 years old (and not that great even at its peak) is people simply don't use it. 

[TheDcoder]

3 hours ago, JLogan3o13 said:

still believe the majority of servers do not employ SSL/TLS

freenode does, and what's wrong with technologies almost 30 years old? I think that makes them more stable and standard. More new standards are being developed like IRC v3 which defines the minimum specifications which protect privacy of users and makes it more suitable for this generation, Both freenode (the IRC network which I am using) and HexChat (the IRC client that I am using.) follow IRCv3 and are official supporters of IRCv3

@JohnOne There are no privacy concerns except that freenode staff can see your IP (Which this forum's staff can see too), That is not a major privacy issue I guess.

@iamtheky I was disagreeing that IRC should redirect users to this forum, as @willichan has done a very good job explaining it, The purpose of forums and IRC are different.

Look people, please stop spreading negative comments about IRC from your past IRC experience, new people might not feel the same way as you... (that includes many like me, I started using IRC in 2014.). For people who think IRC is obsolete, there are many teenagers in freenode who are active in developing FOSS projects and discussing them in IRC.

Like I said earlier, if you want to experience it, join it. If you still don't want to, you don't have to, I am not forcing you. All I know is IRC is a different protocol and serves a different propose.

Some of you might have bitter experiences with other IRC networks (other than freenode), but freenode is undoubtedly not like that, its well maintained and well supported.

 

Like I have repeated earlier in the past, If I have hurt anyone of you, I did not meant to, I was just trying to explain things to you

 

Anyways, A BIG THANKS to @willichan for handling the situation while I was sleeping

[JohnOne]

1 hour ago, TheDcoder said:

There are no privacy concerns except that freenode staff can see your IP (Which this forum's staff can see too), That is not a major privacy issue I guess.

Thing is, on a web forum like this, the owner pays money for all kinds of hosting, software, has to have web skills, you can see they put time and effort into creating something. Its kind of like digitally signing an application, it invites trust, and a sense of maturity in the whole thing.

Whereas any script kiddy or run of the mill internet jackass can make an IRC channel. (no offence intended) I,m talking about IRC in general.

[TheDcoder]

@JohnOne Yeah, that is true , I have also seen some channels like that lol

 

But not all channels are like that (including ##AutoIt)

[JohnOne]

I think what AutoIt needs, is a Usenet newsgroup.

[TheDcoder]

Just now, JohnOne said:

Usenet newsgroup

What is dat?

[BrewManNH]

I was thinking maybe a node on FIDONet.

[TheDcoder]

haha... funny

[JLogan3o13]

8 hours ago, TheDcoder said:

Look people, please stop spreading negative comments about IRC from your past IRC experience, new people might not feel the same way as you... (that includes many like me, I started using IRC in 2014.). For people who think IRC is obsolete, there are many teenagers in freenode who are active in developing FOSS projects and discussing them in IRC.

You can't very well begin a topic asking what forum members think about an idea, and then whine when the response is not what you want to hear.

[TheDcoder]

1 minute ago, JLogan3o13 said:

begin a topic asking what forum members think about an idea

When did I? I am just seeking permission from @Jon...