Autoit: A Full Fledged Language One Day?

[Guest Guidosoft]

So do ya think it will? I mean, it's already on that trail. The flexibility and complexity is done. The language syntax is well established and is concidered a "Proper" language. All that is left is the GUI and C++ like power. Note to developers of autoit: Never make it as complicated as C++. It is soooo perfect the way it is now. GOOD JOB!!

[Insolence]

Why would it become like C++?

That's not it's purpose... it's purpose is to automate things, and it does that VERY WELL.

I would like an IDE(not sure if that's the right term) though.

[pekster]

It offers the power of C++ since the source and API calls to windows are done using C++, yet the interface is a much simplier syntax, which makes quickly banging out a working script much eaisier. It's also a good place for new users to the world of programming to start since it doesn't have as much of a learning curve as something like C, C++, or Java would carry.

As for the GUI, it is rather simple once you learn to use it. Sure, Java (amoung other languages) offers many fancy layouts for arranging objects on an interface, but that comes at the expence of more complexity, which is not the goal of AutoIt. Not to mention that you could probably script a UDF to handle any fancy layouts you wanted that aren't avaiable in AutoIt, although I don't see the point.

I don't see excatally what you want. You ask for a more "complex" langauge and mention C++, but say it should never be as complicated... That really makes no sense. AutoIt is not designed to be a "full fleged language", but a windows scripting language for automation purposes. It does that, with many features that you will not find elsewhere.

[ivan]

I believe that many people from very different walks of life are beginning to understand programming concepts. Scuh is the case of graphic designers who use flash and must develop scirpts in ActionScripts, or many of the html stuff. Furthermore, the spread of multimedia has made it essential that poeple in the business understand more complex languages such as Director Lingo. The list goes on, but these guys are forced to evolve scripting capabilities.

I'm certain that autoit will make it to the top 5 scripting languages sooner than most people expect, because a) there's an enormous need for it, it's free, c) it evolves rapidly, d) there's a lot of guys out there providing support when you need it, and e) i think it's quite easy to use.

After all, I've no formal programming studies, but mere common sense, and I've acheived some amazing stuff with this exe.

[jbarr]

As I stated in another thread, I chose AutoIT as a "WinBatch" replacement. I spent 4 years using WinBatch to automate numerous EDI processes. I streamlined the processes into a VERY automated system requiring little more than occasional monitoring. WinBatch was a lifesaver when our EDI Translator wouldn't handle some of our "corporate idiosyncracies". Of course, using WinBatch was all well and good because the company paid for the $500.00 compiler.

Now, I'm working for a different company, and we don't really have any need for WinaBatch. As a hobbyist though, I have several "projects" that have made me seriously consider saving up for that WinBatch compiler. But after playing around with AutoIT for a while, I have left WinBatch behind.

It's a VERY slick programming language that, once you take the time to learn the ins and outs, is very powerful.

That said, in keeping with the topic, here are some things that might help improve AutoIT and propell it more "mainstream":

1. Consolidate Versions

I would love to see an eventual consolidation of the GUI version and the "standard" version. Maybe this will happen soon, but it's a bit confusing having two development forks. If I am missing something here, please correct me!

2. Develop A Decent IDE

While there are a few very nice "GUI code creation" apps, I would lOVE to see a more "generalized" IDE. For my needs, I currently use UltraEdit with the AutoIT Syntax Hilighting enabled. This works VERY well, especially when I defined a "tool" to do the compiling. It's now as simple as "edit", click the tool button, and it auto-complies and runs. For MOST purposes, this is an excellent environment, and as a long-time programmer who isn't afraid of the vi editor, it's just fine. But to push it "mainstream" AutoIT may need a "safer", more "controlled" development environment. I'm not really sure what I mean by that. Maybe others can jump in. I guess what I'm saying is that providing a user with simpley a help document and some examples, (while traditionally, probably the BEST way to learn a programming language!) won't be that "attractive" given the "GUI-ness" of many other programming environments. Does that make sense?

There are no doubt many other possible suggestions, but for now, those are really the only two "issues" that I have.

AutoIT is truely an innovative and excellent scripting tool/programming language that really does more than most scripting tools. And the fact that it easily and simply creates "real .exe" files just rocks! In the end, it's saved me $500.00 that I would have otherwise (happily) spent on WinBatch.

[Bartokv]

I had to go with probably, even though I'd love to say yes...

The big-wigs of my Corporation refuse to recognize AutoIt as a viable programming/scripting environment, despite the fact that I've repeatedly pointed out the advantages of using it.

I have the feeling that AutoIt will run into similar opposition from all of the other know-nothing PHB's (pointy-haired-bosses) that are in charge of most work environments.

[jbarr]

Concerning my above statement about "consolidating versions"...

"Nutster" kindly informed me that the standard version is the release version while the GUI version is the current Beta version. Once some design decisions are made, the GUI version will become the release version. Very cool!

OK, check that one off the list!

[pekster]

2. Develop A Decent IDE

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While this can be nice, the language itself needs to do nothing for an IDE to be present. The applications are seperate, and an IDE is nothing more than a fancy environment to write code in. This isn't really a problem with AutoIt, but something you would like as a stand-alone application that understands AutoIt code to the extent that it can paste pre-built AutoIt code into your editing environment and interact with the compiler, and other conviences that come with an IDE. However, as far as improving the language, an IDE has nothing to do with the source behind the work of AutoIt.

[MHz]

I think it is almost full for it's purpose of automation ( once the GUI and other bugs are removed ). If the langauge gets too bloated and complex, then it's popularity may be compromized in either direction.

It would be a nice thought if one programming language that could do it all. Would need a bigger helpfile indeed. Autoit should slowly evolve to it's purpose. Where ever that direction leads to.

[Coffee]

I had to put "Maybe" do to the fact that is is open for anyone to develope.

Otherwise sadly, as will all applications it is more of a popularity contest or who rubs elbows better when it comes to most things in life. It is not what you know, it is who you know applies to most everything.

Like c# is it worth all that downloading if your not a developer to run C# stuff?

Is sp2 nothing other than a craptastic huge download that screws up all your files?

If a product like autoit had any sorts of problems like this, it would be a scar on that program that would never be forgotton, kina like the use of autoit by black hats to create malicious code.

If it were not for these reasons everyone would be using some open source operating system, open source applications, and game developers would be hacking out only games for open source platforms. Although to put up with these often times obnoxious programs AND have to pay for them on top of that in a logical sense, well..makes no sense. Someone with clout, money, fame, standing has deemed program "x" is in, or cool, or cutting edge booshwa. and such every other top named compay or anyone of importance has to be using that tool "too fit in" no matter how crappy it is. This might change for auto it or programs like it if:

More people that "actually work" like people on here refuse to work at places that do not support or look down upon free software such as this, making developers in control rather than the people with the bankroll. (unlikely)

Someone gets rich and decides to mingle and pass on the assumption that, "if your not using autoit, your a dufuss, and below cutting edge"

(word gets around no matter where you are if your popular, rich, etc, ie. hollywood, big business, etc.)

Someone who already has clout decides to promote a specific program like autoit.

Not saying these are the only reasons, or methods. Its most of us are not in high standing anywhere or not worth risking such high standing over etc. It's all a popularity contest. Kina like high school, Joe is popular and has an ugly ass hat on, but he is popular so everyone thinks it's cool and runs out to buy em(aka. expesive crappy program A) Yet the parents of the kids don't understand why anyone in their right mind would wear such a rediculous looking hat(aka. autoit program B )

Edited August 19, 2004 by Coffee

[Fredledingue]

I gave a "maybe" because nothing is sure. Now it's evoluing very fast but maybe one day it will stop, losing steam, be abandonned be its creators who knows...

But I think it get in a niche, for the newbie developers because it's easy and it look like vbs.

One great advantage for its propagation is that it can be used inside vbs. I myself discovered Autoit through AutoitX3.

I think the pro will stick with c++ and the likes. Noting that Autoit can be useful for professional and very advanced purpose too.

[pekster]

I think the pro will stick with c++ and the likes. Noting that Autoit can be useful for professional and very advanced purpose too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The interesting thing about computer languages is that the more you know, the more you realise each language has specific strengths and weaknesses. There is no one programming language that is overall more suitable to use since you will select the language that you know to best mold a solution to your problem at hand. So it's not as much a matter of "sticking with" a language that might be more "powerful," but choosing the language that will be the most efficient for the use it will provide.

[Beastmaster]

it's not as much a matter of "sticking with" a language that might be more "powerful," but choosing the language that will be the most efficient for the use it will provide

That's it

[Guest Guidosoft]

I keep accidently stumbling onto new languages and keep learning them. I know like about 6 already. I am serious. Sometimes I worry that if I get used to one syntax or one way of programing I will forget the others. Here are some programing languages I learned:

1. C++ (Eh, I am doing ok with this), 2. Visual Basic (I am getting pretty good with this thing), 3. Jamagic (Yea man, thank click team for that. It's like Javascript), 4. Javascript(Not a compiled language though. Yea man, came to my attention after mentionaing jamagic), 5. RapidQ (A form of basic) QBasic (A form of basic). 6. And last but certainly not the least AutoItV3.

At of all the languages I wen't through none of them offered automating apps the way I always wanted. I always thought it would be cool to make the computer go through a daily routine of checking email, writting reports, all the cool stuff. Finaly, I stumbled up AUTOIT!!!!! YEA!!!!!!!!!!! REALY REALY COOL!!!!!!!!! Of course, I had to get used to the $ before the variable. Drove me crazy at first.

I am 13 and I just started this when I was 7. I always thaught all these languages were beyond me and I would never be able to make programs but look what happened now. I take it for granted now man. Thank God for giving me this computer talents.

Who wants to hear my entire auto-biography of how I accidently discovered every single thing I know about the computer and became a computer geeky-freeky-nerdy-wizard.

Well, here is my Auto-Biographicality:

OK, when I was three I was a pest so my grandfather made me use the computer and I knew what stuff was called but I couldn't read so I had no idea what the hell I was doing. When I was about 6-7 I made little paper computers and pretended like I was doing some serious data like stuff. Then we got some cheap crapy computer with dos. I played nimbles and that was about it. And so begins the age of Discovery. When I was 8 we got a windows computer. Yea man. It was cool. I just wen't to paint and messed around. I was ACCIDENTLY in a system folder and sometimes my grandfather and parents and grandmother were making me get off the computer cause they thaught I was gona mess it up. Now, I ain't gona put everything in cronological order cause a my memeory is kinda fuzzy here. Now, I stumpled upon front page express and made simple pages. I made a page that looked like it had configuration settings and it said at the top: "You have successfuly deleted window" and my grandfather believed it. They almost got pretty mad untill I closed the page. It was in full screen so that's why it looked real. I learned batch file language and did some stuff. Of course batch files are just a series of command prompt commands. I dreamed of making programs.

Ya know what I use to do? When I was 8 I combined the realy weak and limited power of batch files with web pages and pretended like it was an operating system. Of course you could tell it was just a batch file that printed some system like stuff launch a page that said Compaq, then a Guidosoft Guidos 1000 page then the supposidly operating system looking like web page. It was pretty bad now that I think about it, but for me it was the best thing. It was beyond what anybody in the house and school could do anyway. But now I know I had a long way to go. When I was about 9-10 we got dial - up. I downloaded some crap. I stumbled upon what they call "Multimedia Fusion." Let me make whatever kinda game/prog I wanted. Unfortianly it cost money. When I was 11 I finaly got it but by that time I was like into scripts and text-based computer directions. MMF was a click-inteface. I used that for a while got boared and I am ashamed to say this: I got VB from kazaaLite++. Well now you know. I am not gona do that again. I didn't know it was illegal. Before that though I got optimum when I was 12. 11-12 was when my knowledge of the system sky rocketed out of our galaxy. I was like, woah, I can add something to the new list with this regedit program that I thaught was useless? I could make my own undeletable items of the desktop by making up some stupid CLSID and puting in the desktop\namespace thing? Woah. What? Looky what I found RapidQ? Jamagic? VB? Holy crap, I actualy understand javascript and now I understand this full fledged programing language. I learned with my mind. Didn't like reading. My brain had to think "Now what this little semicolin for here yea" Then I understood. I began makin me own websites by 12 ya all. At 12 I learned all the languages I told. By then i learned em all much quicker because believe it or not. I actualy read the documentation. Then I got theese too boocks and I said Boo, pascal, boo, delphi, that cost money, boo, java, too slow, too dependent on an external platform, boo, c++, I used that to make little stupid console apps. Then I learned windows programing but a hello world app was like 50 lines. QBasic hit me real hard. I was prepared for it because I knew. VBScript and Javascript. Guess what. I am 13 now, my birthday was august 20, 2004, ya. (I only said that so you can tell me happy birthday yea) Ok, now I know all those realy cool langs. Guess what, the art of assembly is unraveling before my eyes. Machine code is opening up to me. AND I WILL BE THE GREATES PROGRAMER THAT EVER LIVED.

I wrote this entire insignifacant porley written misspelled bad grammered biography in 15 minutes cause I was bored. You probably couldn't care less but I was bored. Probably wondering how I write programs without messed up syntaxes. Well, I don't. IF L > 10 then L/3 = N where N is the number of times I make a mistack and L is the number of lines. Basicly yea. I have the compiler say you did this ass-ways about 20 times before I get the thing running with loads a bugs. I hate having to actualy write code that stops things from happening to avoid bugs but it's neccesary so what can I say.

Edited August 21, 2004 by Guidosoft

[Dev]

Could be, but i wont bet my life on it

Voted: Maybe

[Jon]

I keep accidently stumbling onto new languages and keep learning them. I know like about 6 already. I am serious. Sometimes I worry that if I get used to one syntax or one way of programing I will forget the others.

Most of the structured languages are the same. If you learn AutoIt, VB, C, php, whatever then you should be able to pick up any language just by seeing a few examples. I wrote some php the other day for the first time by looking at a small section of code first and my thought processes were:

- ok, i see that lines end in ;

- joining strings seems to be done with . rather than the more usual + or & - how odd

- variables seem to only be valid outside of strings (like autoit)

- here are a bunch of loops

And off I went. Apart from a few really messed up languages (AutoIt2, lisp, forth, etc) you should be able to switch from one to the other with little trouble. Sure each program will have it's own strengths and oddities - like pointers in C or monster regexes in Perl/PHP or automation in Autoit - but the basics of program structure and the sorts of things you can achieve remain the same.

It's part of the reason why I made v3 more structured - it opens it up to a much wider audience. Anyone who has done anything with batch files and scripts or an IT course at school will have written a tiny BASIC or Pascal program (or whatever they use these days) and will be able to use it with a few glances to the helpfile. I don't accept that it is any more difficult than v2 for newbs either. I wrote my first BASIC program at 9, and I have barely a 100 IQ - and basic these days is a lot more accessible than the ZX81 version that I started on!

My first program by the way was:

10 PRINT "Enter Password"
20 INPUT A$
30 IF A$ <> "zx81" THEN GOTO 10
40 PRINT "Correct"

Then was the horror as you realised that you wanted to insert some code and you had to start using numbers like 31, 32, 33. No "renumber" command or text editors either. Eek.

I wrote it after getting a ZX81 for xmas after being addicted to some old TV program about some computer geeks and a PC called RALF (or something). I think it was called something like whizzkids...

Edit: Found it: http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0085110/ - That's the program that made me bug my dad into buying a ZX81

Hehe - full on nostalgia mode: http://epguides.com/WhizKids/guide.shtml

And for those who have no idea what a ZX81 is: http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/computers/zx81/zx81.htm - Look! flat keyboard!

Edited August 24, 2004 by Jon

[Valik]

Mmmm, Forth is fun... if you can think backwards and sideways and upside-down, which I can't, so I suck at it. I hate RPN. nnCron has Forth built in. Lua is a much better embedded language.

[Nutster]

You mean I wasted my time learning Lisp, Commodore Basic, Prolog and Cobol? Yeah I think so too.

[Guest Guidosoft]

You mean I wasted my time learning Lisp, Commodore Basic, Prolog and Cobol?    Yeah I think so too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oh great, now that snake is dancing in front of me. I AM LEARNING PYTHON NOW!

[Guest Guidosoft]

oh great, now that snake is dancing in front of me. I AM LEARNING PYTHON NOW!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oh yea, prolog is another one I forgot to mention. The compiler is too slow on my computer. For some reason I think it sucks. I had no clue what the hell I was doing with that language because the compiler was so slow it took a day to test a Hi I am Guido program. OK, I am overexagerating. I stoped learning it the first day.