Zylli42

Code Usage Etiquette?

15 posts in this topic

I am making a program for non-profit use for a gaming community.  The program takes some inputs and calculates some things that are otherwise hard to calculate due to the complexity of the game.  I would like to make it available to the general public by posting it on SourceForge, but copyright laws are a gray area for me.

The issue is my code uses some functions I found on these forums.  Other than giving credit to their user names and sending them a PM, do I need to worry about any rights they may claim to the code?

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Nope, and the things you mentioned are just niceties.


,-. .--. ________ .-. .-. ,---. ,-. .-. .-. .-.
|(| / /\ \ |\ /| |__ __||| | | || .-' | |/ / \ \_/ )/
(_) / /__\ \ |(\ / | )| | | `-' | | `-. | | / __ \ (_)
| | | __ | (_)\/ | (_) | | .-. | | .-' | | \ |__| ) (
| | | | |)| | \ / | | | | | |)| | `--. | |) \ | |
`-' |_| (_) | |\/| | `-' /( (_)/( __.' |((_)-' /(_|
'-' '-' (__) (__) (_) (__)

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#3 ·  Posted (edited)

Hi Zylli42, welcome to the forum.

Did you perchance read the forum rules on your way in?

See the bottom right of every forum page for the link.

Particularly the section on Gaming and/or Botting.

Many here, would not be happy with you using their code for something that contravenes the rules here or their personal beliefs about unfairness.

Perhaps you should give more detail about what it is you've done for this (unnamed) gaming community.

Edited by TheSaint

AutoIt.4.Life Clubrooms - Life is like a Donut (secret key)

Make sure brain is in gear before opening mouth!
Remember, what is not said, can be just as important as what is said.

Spoiler

What is the Secret Key? Life is like a Donut

If I put effort into communication, I expect you to read properly & fully, or just not comment.
Ignoring those who try to divert conversation with irrelevancies.
If I'm intent on insulting you or being rude, I will be obvious, not ambiguous about it.
I'm only big and bad, to those who have an over-active imagination.

I may have the Artistic Liesense ;) to disagree with you. TheSaint's Toolbox (be advised many downloads are not working due to ISP screwup with my storage)

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My code does not violate the forum rules.  I don't want to release it to the public or announce what game it is for until it is tested by my gaming clan.

My program is a form of a calculator.  It does not interact with any other executable in any way.  It requires manual input of some numbers and produces a list of results, which are displayed within the program's window.

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So you've ok'd that with the Game's creator, and it is not against their TOS, and it doesn't give an advantage over others without it?

P.S. I wouldn't go by what boththose says, as some here do post their code with conditions. He just likes to be controversial.

In any case, you should show respect.


AutoIt.4.Life Clubrooms - Life is like a Donut (secret key)

Make sure brain is in gear before opening mouth!
Remember, what is not said, can be just as important as what is said.

Spoiler

What is the Secret Key? Life is like a Donut

If I put effort into communication, I expect you to read properly & fully, or just not comment.
Ignoring those who try to divert conversation with irrelevancies.
If I'm intent on insulting you or being rude, I will be obvious, not ambiguous about it.
I'm only big and bad, to those who have an over-active imagination.

I may have the Artistic Liesense ;) to disagree with you. TheSaint's Toolbox (be advised many downloads are not working due to ISP screwup with my storage)

userbar.png

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Zylli42,

As I understand it the copyright of any published material rests with the author unless specifically renounced. But posting code on a public site such as this without having imposed any formal licencing requirements means that, although the code is not strictly in the public domain, the author is unlikely to object to it being used elsewhere. Of course, that is a layman opinion and has no weight in law. :)

Acknowledging that some sections of the code within a script were produced by others would be polite, but I completely understand the comment above regarding the possibility that some authors might not wish to be associated with certain end products. However, if the attribution were carefully worded to make clear that their contribution was solely as authors of the original code and that they were not involved personally in the specific project, I cannot imagine that you would cause much offence. ;)

M23


Any of my own code posted anywhere on the forum is available for use by others without any restriction of any kind._______My UDFs:

Spoiler

ArrayMultiColSort ---- Sort arrays on multiple columns
ChooseFileFolder ---- Single and multiple selections from specified path treeview listing
Date_Time_Convert -- Easily convert date/time formats, including the language used
ExtMsgBox --------- A highly customisable replacement for MsgBox
GUIExtender -------- Extend and retract multiple sections within a GUI
GUIFrame ---------- Subdivide GUIs into many adjustable frames
GUIListViewEx ------- Insert, delete, move, drag, sort, edit and colour ListView items
GUITreeViewEx ------ Check/clear parent and child checkboxes in a TreeView
Marquee ----------- Scrolling tickertape GUIs
NoFocusLines ------- Remove the dotted focus lines from buttons, sliders, radios and checkboxes
Notify ------------- Small notifications on the edge of the display
Scrollbars ----------Automatically sized scrollbars with a single command
StringSize ---------- Automatically size controls to fit text
Toast -------------- Small GUIs which pop out of the notification area

 

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So you've ok'd that with the Game's creator, and it is not against their TOS, and it doesn't give an advantage over others without it?

P.S. I wouldn't go by what boththose says, as some here do post their code with conditions. He just likes to be controversial.

In any case, you should show respect.

 

I am working on obtaining the permission from the game's creator.  

The advantage it gives is in decision-making only.  It reduces or eliminates the need for trial and error in creating a "character build" by following mathematical rules instead of spending a lot of time guessing and trying something.  It isn't the only tool available to do such a thing but it is designed to be more accurate than previous tools.  All of the math used is public knowledge.

Does this forum allow sending private messages?  How do I obtain permission to send private messages so I can request permission from the people whose code I incorporated into my program?

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I believe you can use the PM system after making so many posts but I don't remember exactly - it's not too many. Anyway, I would first wait until you get permission from the developers of the game, before contacting any code authors. It's unlikely anyone will say no, but they might not all respond.

This does not appear to be about game automation in a direct sense, which is an unacceptable topic on this forum. The possibility of gaining an unfair advantage over other players may still concern the game developers. Perhaps it will be less of a concern to them if it is shared openly with other players like you suggest. First get confirmation.

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Zylli42,

I have adjusted your permissions so that you can now PM other members. :)

However, as czardas has suggested, I suggest you wait until you have permission from the game developers before contacting anyone. If you do not get permission and still decide to proceed with the script I propose you drop any idea of crediting anyone - as associating others with what would be an unapproved app would not be a good idea. ;)

M23


Any of my own code posted anywhere on the forum is available for use by others without any restriction of any kind._______My UDFs:

Spoiler

ArrayMultiColSort ---- Sort arrays on multiple columns
ChooseFileFolder ---- Single and multiple selections from specified path treeview listing
Date_Time_Convert -- Easily convert date/time formats, including the language used
ExtMsgBox --------- A highly customisable replacement for MsgBox
GUIExtender -------- Extend and retract multiple sections within a GUI
GUIFrame ---------- Subdivide GUIs into many adjustable frames
GUIListViewEx ------- Insert, delete, move, drag, sort, edit and colour ListView items
GUITreeViewEx ------ Check/clear parent and child checkboxes in a TreeView
Marquee ----------- Scrolling tickertape GUIs
NoFocusLines ------- Remove the dotted focus lines from buttons, sliders, radios and checkboxes
Notify ------------- Small notifications on the edge of the display
Scrollbars ----------Automatically sized scrollbars with a single command
StringSize ---------- Automatically size controls to fit text
Toast -------------- Small GUIs which pop out of the notification area

 

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The laws concerning this scenario are broken beyond belief. Placing anything on the internet means you are distributing your software to every country, you need to comply with all of their individual laws. You're not only dealing with classical author copyright (since code is text and someone authored it), you're dealing with software patents as well and don't forget overly broad laws like the PATRIOT act which can be used against you no matter where you live or what you're doing. And most countries do extradite to the US for blatantly made-up charges, consider yourself fortunate if yours doesn't. 

It takes a lifetime to really study the relevant laws concerning what you're doing if you're limiting yourself to distribution in a single country, if you're distributing to the world it takes many many multiples of lifetimes -- or an army of lawyers. This is generally why web-based companies will launch in a single country and make their services available in other countries at a later date, once they know their service is profitable and they have the equity to be able to afford plenty of lawyers in said country.

On the upside, despite all of the brokenness and frivolous lawsuits, the world keeps spinning, the sun comes up for nothing and the internet is still working to a reasonable degree. You can waste a lot of time on licensing your code to cover your ass, but in practice it doesn't work and you might as well have slapped on something that looks good and official (eg MIT or Apache). Generally speaking, if you're not doing it for profit, it is better to ask forgiveness rather than permission and try not to upset anyone with power/money/influence to send mean looking lawyers and threatening letters your way.

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I concur with Manadar.

Really at the end of the day, the world works best on respect and consideration of others.

What comes around, truly does go around ... though it might not be obvious.

Personally, I'm not in favor of gaming aids, for there is an element of unfair advantage.

That said, many have a disability or an unfair advantage anyway, just due to their own makeup.

Life is unbalanced, and I'm not a great fan of competitiveness, because generally, the same few always seem to win, and the majority loses.

Still, there are the laws of nature to consider, and life is not about fairness ... and where would we be without progress.

What really rankles and irks me, is those who are blessed, but find it necessary to cheat as well.


AutoIt.4.Life Clubrooms - Life is like a Donut (secret key)

Make sure brain is in gear before opening mouth!
Remember, what is not said, can be just as important as what is said.

Spoiler

What is the Secret Key? Life is like a Donut

If I put effort into communication, I expect you to read properly & fully, or just not comment.
Ignoring those who try to divert conversation with irrelevancies.
If I'm intent on insulting you or being rude, I will be obvious, not ambiguous about it.
I'm only big and bad, to those who have an over-active imagination.

I may have the Artistic Liesense ;) to disagree with you. TheSaint's Toolbox (be advised many downloads are not working due to ISP screwup with my storage)

userbar.png

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really, multiple governments involved, and a morality play?  I was not being controversial, I was shooting more for actuality:

You dont need any sort of permission from the game creator, publisher, or mother to make a walk-through or decision tree.  Moreover, you will find very little code on the forums that does not have an abundance of prior art (probably find most of it in the help file), getting individual permission for what is most likely GUI elements and an ini is nice, but absolutely not necessary.


,-. .--. ________ .-. .-. ,---. ,-. .-. .-. .-.
|(| / /\ \ |\ /| |__ __||| | | || .-' | |/ / \ \_/ )/
(_) / /__\ \ |(\ / | )| | | `-' | | `-. | | / __ \ (_)
| | | __ | (_)\/ | (_) | | .-. | | .-' | | \ |__| ) (
| | | | |)| | \ / | | | | | |)| | `--. | |) \ | |
`-' |_| (_) | |\/| | `-' /( (_)/( __.' |((_)-' /(_|
'-' '-' (__) (__) (_) (__)

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This sticky question is why I added into my signature that all the code I post here is free to use by all. Whether it's valid legally isn't important, it tells everyone that I don't care if they use anything I post and I'm not coming after them if they use it.

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If I posted any code, assume that code was written using the latest release version unless stated otherwise. Also, if it doesn't work on XP I can't help with that because I don't have access to XP, and I'm not going to.
Give a programmer the correct code and he can do his work for a day. Teach a programmer to debug and he can do his work for a lifetime - by Chirag Gude
How to ask questions the smart way!

I hereby grant any person the right to use any code I post, that I am the original author of, on the autoitscript.com forums, unless I've specifically stated otherwise in the code or the thread post. If you do use my code all I ask, as a courtesy, is to make note of where you got it from.

Back up and restore Windows user files _Array.au3 - Modified array functions that include support for 2D arrays.  -  ColorChooser - An add-on for SciTE that pops up a color dialog so you can select and paste a color code into a script.  -  Customizable Splashscreen GUI w/Progress Bar - Create a custom "splash screen" GUI with a progress bar and custom label.  -  _FileGetProperty - Retrieve the properties of a file  -  SciTE Toolbar - A toolbar demo for use with the SciTE editor  -  GUIRegisterMsg demo - Demo script to show how to use the Windows messages to interact with controls and your GUI.  -   Latin Square password generator

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You dont need any sort of permission from the game creator, publisher, or mother to make a walk-through or decision tree.

Some games in early access or beta or whatnot will forbid this.  :naughty:  Having a look at the Official Policy is what is going to help you determine what you can do.

Otherwise, I doubt a calculator, which does not interact with the game in any way, will be against policy. As, someone dedicated to MMO's in their past have seen many create their own "gear" calculators. As long as, the application is not interacting or affecting gameplay, then you should be fine. But, if the Official Policy states that no 3rd party applications are a loud, then you are going against the set rules.

I'm the same as BrewManNH, you can use my code and I have clearly stated that. As, if it was used for something malicious that is all on you, as you were the one to use the code for malicious intent.

 


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Feel free to use any of my code for your own use.                                                                                                                                                           Forum FAQ

 

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boththose, walkthroughs could be derivative works under copyright law similar to Let's plays. Their legality is questionable and differs per country. Whether they're fair use is yet to be determined but a lot of large studios are creating partner programs specifically for this purpose to avoid the legal questions. Yes, there is prior art for a lot of code on the forums, but the point is that law applies, in every country you're distributing to, and that you may find yourself presenting such prior art in court in defense of a patent lawsuit.

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