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Morthawt

What's a naturally unpredictable time usage function to waste tiny amounts of time?

16 posts in this topic

#1 ·  Posted (edited)

I am making a random selection program for someone and rather than just have the program pick 1 random item from a list, I am adding extra uncertainty that is more organic than an unknown seed value  by adding time into the equation. A sliding scale of speed of picking random name after name after name and since every CPU is different, CPU usage is different from moment to moment, even if I set the seed value manually to 1 most of the time I get random results. But I am wondering if there is a function that I could do between selections which is inherently unpredictable in how long it takes to complete yet is very fast, just so that iteration after iteration of going through the name lists it could never be predicted even if the seed value were set (which it won't be).

Do you know what I mean?

Edited by Morthawt

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The Syracuse problem (or Collatz, or Ulam or 3x+1 or ...) is a good example of a simple function whose run time (until 1 is first reached) doesn't decidably depend on the input seed fed into it.


This wonderful site allows debugging and testing regular expressions (many flavors available). An absolute must have in your bookmarks.
Another excellent RegExp tutorial. Don't forget downloading your copy of up-to-date pcretest.exe and pcregrep.exe here
RegExp tutorial: enough to get started
PCRE v8.33 regexp documentation latest available release and currently implemented in AutoIt beta.

SQLitespeed is another feature-rich premier SQLite manager (includes import/export). Well worth a try.
SQLite Expert (freeware Personal Edition or payware Pro version) is a very useful SQLite database manager.
An excellent eBook covering almost every aspect of SQLite3: a must-read for anyone doing serious work.
SQL tutorial (covers "generic" SQL, but most of it applies to SQLite as well)
A work-in-progress SQLite3 tutorial. Don't miss other LxyzTHW pages!
SQLite official website with full documentation (may be newer than the SQLite library that comes standard with AutoIt)

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I'm not sure I follow what you mean. Essentially since I am trying to just add some extra randomness ( I know I don't really "need" it but I would just like to any way ) I am trying to add a small unknown delay between going generating a random name so that by the time comes up it may not be accurately predicted even if the srandom seed was set to 1. That way if I remove that so that the seed is algorithmically random, the unpredictable delays make it even "more" random.

So I do not really understand what you said or how to use that to help me add such a small delay.

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Since it's for a random small delay, why not simply randomize sleep?


This wonderful site allows debugging and testing regular expressions (many flavors available). An absolute must have in your bookmarks.
Another excellent RegExp tutorial. Don't forget downloading your copy of up-to-date pcretest.exe and pcregrep.exe here
RegExp tutorial: enough to get started
PCRE v8.33 regexp documentation latest available release and currently implemented in AutoIt beta.

SQLitespeed is another feature-rich premier SQLite manager (includes import/export). Well worth a try.
SQLite Expert (freeware Personal Edition or payware Pro version) is a very useful SQLite database manager.
An excellent eBook covering almost every aspect of SQLite3: a must-read for anyone doing serious work.
SQL tutorial (covers "generic" SQL, but most of it applies to SQLite as well)
A work-in-progress SQLite3 tutorial. Don't miss other LxyzTHW pages!
SQLite official website with full documentation (may be newer than the SQLite library that comes standard with AutoIt)

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Since it's for a random small delay, why not simply randomize sleep?

Because I would be using the same randomness engine to randomize the sleep, which is essentially the same as not doing it, in terms of adding "real" randomness. The only way to cause it to "more" random would be to stagger the processing of the individual entries being processed so that when the allotted time has expired the final resulting entry is not predictable. Currently I have gotten it so that if I manually set the seed value, it teeters between two entries depending on the state of the CPU, so sometimes it is this and sometimes it is that, but it is always one of the two. I would like to increase that even though the seed it's self will be self-randomized by AutoIt as usual and not manually set.

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Why not set the seed using @MSEC?


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Updated: 04/09/2015

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Why not set the seed using @MSEC?

Because there are only 999 possible seeds and it would not "add" randomness. I could just do a simple operation to pick a random number and access that array element to get a value, but I have a visual aspect of what I am working on so it flicks through them all gradually slower and slower until it reaches the desired time and the one remaining is the one that "wins". So I am just trying to add some stuttering tiny gaps so that the result has extra "quality" randomness that is not algorithmic from a seed value that is just unknown. When my program starts processing it is going incredibly fast, so adding tiny stutters between those of a truly random nature "should" provide a radically different result at the end where it is going slower I would think.

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This is pretty unique...

Number(@YEAR & @MON & @MDAY & @HOUR & @MIN & @SEC & @MSEC)

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Updated: 04/09/2015

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#9 ·  Posted (edited)

I don't follow this. Sleep() is inexact, so why do you need to use Random() at all? Okay you could use a pseudo-random number of inexact tiny sleep intervals. If you want shorter durations execute some random code.

Edited by czardas

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You can always seed the random number generator with a random number.


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I believe Sleep(0) might be what you're looking for.

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Or even GuiGetMsg()

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I've no idea which "kind" of randomness the OP is after but here is a simple example of code that somehow fits the title:

Local $t
For $i = 1 To 100
    $t = TimerInit()
    ConsoleWrite(_Ulam() & " loops done in " & TimerDiff($t) & @LF)
Next

Func _Ulam()
    Local $n = Random(2, 10000000000000, 1), $k
    Do
        $n = Mod($n, 2) ? $n * 3 + 1 : Int($n / 2)
        $k += 1
    Until $n = 1
    Return $k
EndFunc

This wonderful site allows debugging and testing regular expressions (many flavors available). An absolute must have in your bookmarks.
Another excellent RegExp tutorial. Don't forget downloading your copy of up-to-date pcretest.exe and pcregrep.exe here
RegExp tutorial: enough to get started
PCRE v8.33 regexp documentation latest available release and currently implemented in AutoIt beta.

SQLitespeed is another feature-rich premier SQLite manager (includes import/export). Well worth a try.
SQLite Expert (freeware Personal Edition or payware Pro version) is a very useful SQLite database manager.
An excellent eBook covering almost every aspect of SQLite3: a must-read for anyone doing serious work.
SQL tutorial (covers "generic" SQL, but most of it applies to SQLite as well)
A work-in-progress SQLite3 tutorial. Don't miss other LxyzTHW pages!
SQLite official website with full documentation (may be newer than the SQLite library that comes standard with AutoIt)

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I'm a little lost as well as to what is the intended outcome.


_AdapterConnections()_AlwaysRun()_AppMon()_AppMonEx()_BinaryBin()_CheckMsgBox()_CmdLineRaw()_ContextMenu()_ConvertLHWebColor()/_ConvertSHWebColor()_DesktopDimensions()_DisplayPassword()_DotNet_Load()/_DotNet_Unload()_Fibonacci()_FileCompare()_FileCompareContents()_FileNameByHandle()_FilePrefix/SRE()_FindInFile()_GetBackgroundColor()/_SetBackgroundColor()_GetConrolID()_GetCtrlClass()_GetDirectoryFormat()_GetDriveMediaType()_GetFilename()/_GetFilenameExt()_GetHardwareID()_GetIP()_GetIP_Country()_GetOSLanguage()_GetSavedSource()_GetStringSize()_GetSystemPaths()_GetURLImage()_GIFImage()_GoogleWeather()_GUICtrlCreateGroup()_GUICtrlListBox_CreateArray()_GUICtrlListView_CreateArray()_GUICtrlListView_SaveCSV()_GUICtrlListView_SaveHTML()_GUICtrlListView_SaveTxt()_GUICtrlListView_SaveXML()_GUICtrlMenu_Recent()_GUICtrlMenu_SetItemImage()_GUICtrlTreeView_CreateArray()_GUIDisable()_GUIImageList_SetIconFromHandle()_GUIRegisterMsg()_GUISetIcon()_Icon_Clear()/_Icon_Set()_IdleTime()_InetGet()_InetGetGUI()_InetGetProgress()_IPDetails()_IsFileOlder()_IsGUID()_IsHex()_IsPalindrome()_IsRegKey()_IsStringRegExp()_IsSystemDrive()_IsUPX()_IsValidType()_IsWebColor()_Language()_Log()_MicrosoftInternetConnectivity()_MSDNDataType()_PathFull/GetRelative/Split()_PathSplitEx()_PrintFromArray()_ProgressSetMarquee()_ReDim()_RockPaperScissors()/_RockPaperScissorsLizardSpock()_ScrollingCredits_SelfDelete()_SelfRename()_SelfUpdate()_SendTo()_ShellAll()_ShellFile()_ShellFolder()_SingletonHWID()_SingletonPID()_Startup()_StringCompact()_StringIsValid()_StringRegExpMetaCharacters()_StringReplaceWholeWord()_StringStripChars()_Temperature()_TrialPeriod()_UKToUSDate()/_USToUKDate()_WinAPI_Create_CTL_CODE()_WinAPI_CreateGUID()_WMIDateStringToDate()/_DateToWMIDateString()Au3 script parsingAutoIt SearchAutoIt3 PortableAutoIt3WrapperToPragmaAutoItWinGetTitle()/AutoItWinSetTitle()CodingDirToHTML5FileInstallrFileReadLastChars()GeoIP databaseGUI - Only Close ButtonGUI ExamplesGUICtrlDeleteImage()GUICtrlGetBkColor()GUICtrlGetStyle()GUIEventsGUIGetBkColor()Int_Parse() & Int_TryParse()IsISBN()LockFile()Mapping CtrlIDsOOP in AutoItParseHeadersToSciTE()PasswordValidPasteBinPosts Per DayPreExpandProtect GlobalsQueue()Resource UpdateResourcesExSciTE JumpSettings INISHELLHOOKShunting-YardSignature CreatorStack()Stopwatch()StringAddLF()/StringStripLF()StringEOLToCRLF()VSCROLLWM_COPYDATAMore Examples...

Updated: 04/09/2015

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dilbert.jpg


,-. .--. ________ .-. .-. ,---. ,-. .-. .-. .-.
|(| / /\ \ |\ /| |__ __||| | | || .-' | |/ / \ \_/ )/
(_) / /__\ \ |(\ / | )| | | `-' | | `-. | | / __ \ (_)
| | | __ | (_)\/ | (_) | | .-. | | .-' | | \ |__| ) (
| | | | |)| | \ / | | | | | |)| | `--. | |) \ | |
`-' |_| (_) | |\/| | `-' /( (_)/( __.' |((_)-' /(_|
'-' '-' (__) (__) (_) (__)

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I'm a little lost as well as to what is the intended outcome.

Ok, I have a program I made which (using just normal random functionality) picks a name out of a hat and displays it and keeps pulling names out until there are no names left, then it puts all names back into the hat for the next run around. It keeps doing this starting out extremely fast and gradually gets slower. I set the full delay between picking names out and then the desired time to run and then with each name picked out it sets the delay between the next name being picked to the percentage of how close I am to the desired time. So initially it is scrambling super super fast and gradually over the 10 seconds I have it set to reaches 400ms per name pick and then once the delay is equal or greater than the 400ms I set then the name which is displayed is the final "winner". Well, since I am using time additionally to just doing a simple one time instant random selection, I want to add some form of unpredictable delay during the generation process so that the final name displayed may not be predicted even IF i were to set the seed value manually to the same value each time the program runs. That way when I take that away and the seed is naturally random each run it just has a bit of an extra "quality" of random result. See what I mean?

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