_IfPressed

[Daniel W.]

Just add a Filewriteline to your Send function then all works

[Nomad]

Yeah, it's a keylogger. I decompiled a script for him this morning, and it logged all keypresses and saved them to a .txt file. Then sent the file to a ftp server. This was for Diablo II.

Nomad

[SmOke_N]

Yeah, it's a keylogger. I decompiled a script for him this morning, and it logged all keypresses and saved them to a .txt file. Then sent the file to a ftp server. This was for Diablo II.

Nomad

I certainly hope he didn't get the script back.

[Nomad]

I certainly hope he didn't get the script back.

Unfortunately, I always keep my word, even if I regret it later. I didn't consider that it might be malware when I offered to help him. I agreed to help him, but only if he could prove it was his script by answering a couple of questions that only someone who's viewed the source could answer. It was definately his script.

You know my stance on issues such as this. I really didn't want to give it to him. I'm sure I'll probably get flamed for this, but it was a mistake made during the agreement that will not happen again. I could've lied and said I didn't give it back to him, but I did. If I ever offer to help anyone in this manner again, I'm also going to stipulate that if it is malware, the deal is off.

I'm sorry,

Nomad

link to the topic

[Paulie]

I'm sorry,

Nomad

Personally, i like your honesty. and at least you keep your word. promise is a promise right, i see no need for an apology...

just because you helped a lazy-ass noob 5 year old who wanted to steal his friends AIM password, dosen't make you at fault.

can't shoot the messanger...or in this case...the middleman...its not like you wrote it for him...

[SmOke_N]

Personally, i like your honesty. and at least you keep your word. promise is a promise right, i see no need for an apology...

just because you helped a lazy-ass noob 5 year old who wanted to steal his friends AIM password, dosen't make you at fault.

can't shoot the messanger...or in this case...the middleman...its not like you wrote it for him...

That's a rather rediculous statement IMHO. Let a bank robber go free that gives up a rapist, let the rapist go free tht gives up the murderer, let the murderer go free that gives up the terrorist. In these cases, you see the benefit that out weighs the cost... Did the benefit out weigh the cost above? Our word / promise means alot in this day and age, but at who's expense do we keep it. Edited July 17, 2006 by SmOke_N

[Paulie]

That's a rather rediculous statement IMHO. Let a bank robber go free that gives up a rapist, let the rapist go free tht gives up the murderer, let the murderer go free that gives up the terrorist. In these cases, you see the benefit that out weighs the cost... Did the benefit out weigh the cost above? Our word / promise means alot in this day and age, but at who's expense do we keep it.

Ahh... but the flaw in your example is this-

Your example implies i think it is ok to free a criminal who gives up another criminal,

thats like comparing nomad to the bank robber, and sparrow to the rapist.

however in this case, nomad wasn't a criminal merely helped someone because he was bound to do so in an agreement that, when made, was not known to result in negative a outcome, therefore he is just a normal person, not a bank robber.

------------

a more fitting example is this IMHO:

nomad = store owner

sparrow= customer

Customer walks into owners pawn shop, sells him some tools, like wrenches, and hammers, this is not unusual to the owner so he thinks nothing of it.

The next day, store owner finds out that these tools were stolen by the customer from Home depot, and your saying it fitting that the store owner be held responsible?

-----------

Edit: i got another even more fitting example:

man takes out a loan at the bank, the man the uses tha money to buy drugs...

or maybe he buys tools to rape and murder someone.

Thats not the banks fault...

Edited July 17, 2006 by Paulie

[Nomad]

That's a rather rediculous statement IMHO. Let a bank robber go free that gives up a rapist, let the rapist go free tht gives up the murderer, let the murderer go free that gives up the terrorist. In these cases, you see the benefit that out weighs the cost... Did the benefit out weigh the cost above? Our word / promise means alot in this day and age, but at who's expense do we keep it.

I'm not proud of giving it back to him. Believe me, I thought about it for a good 10 minutes before giving it back. The script was rather ragged in my opinion. This person is either very new to AutoIt, or very young. So I didn't really help him out that much, it was rather simple to do.

When I offered to help and then agreed to give it back in a PM without altering it, or disclosing the source to anyone, I never guessed it would be malware. I figured it was just somebody who wanted to see, or steal, the source of someone else's script, and that the person wouldn't be able to prove to me that it was theirs, and that would be that. I was shocked to see what it was.

I didn't give it back happily, and if Sparrowlord were to post my last PM to him when I gave it back, you'd see that I made it very clear I didn't like scripts of that nature, and that I was only giving it back because I said I would. I can't change what's already done, I can only learn from it and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Comparing me to a bank robber who gave up the rapist is hardly a good simile in this case. I'm only guilty of keeping my word, not robbing a bank. Keeping your word is not always easy, which is why there are very few people who do. If I could go back, I'd still give it back... but if I could go back farther, I would've told him that if it was malware he wasn't getting it back. But I can't.

[taurus905]

Customer walks into owners pawn shop, sells him some tools, like wrenches, and hammers, this is not unusual to the owner so he thinks nothing of it.

The next day, store owner finds out that these tools were stolen by the customer from Home depot, and your saying it fitting that the store owner be held responsible?

Paulie,

There is an obvious flaw to this logic:

If the pawn shop owner discovers that the tools are stolen before he gives the money to the customer, does he still buy the tools?

If it were me, and I agreed to help someone in good faith, and later learned that they had bad intensions, that would be enough to nullify the agreement. But that's just me.

From reading his posts, I believe Nomad has learned a valuable leason from this and won't make the same mistake again. You can be true to your word, but sometimes there are other considerations of greater importance.

taurus905

[spyrorocks]

I respect you Nomad for keeping your word. not very many people do thease days.

[Paulie]

Paulie,

There is an obvious flaw to this logic:

If the pawn shop owner discovers that the tools are stolen before he gives the money to the customer, does he still buy the tools?

If it were me, and I agreed to help someone in good faith, and later learned that they had bad intensions, that would be enough to nullify the agreement. But that's just me.

From reading his posts, I believe Nomad has learned a valuable leason from this and won't make the same mistake again. You can be true to your word, but sometimes there are other considerations of greater importance.

taurus905

Ya well...umm...uhhh....ok you win i'm out of similes :"> :">

anyway, still respect nomad for keeping his promise. but like he said, the bank robber thing was hardly cogent.

[Nomad]

For those who support my decision, I appreciate it. For those who don't, I understand why. I did what I felt was the right thing to do. This was a moral decision that had positives and negatives either way. Keep your word and help out evil, or commit evil by breaking your word. The decision rests on what your virtues are.

I'm done with this now, I can't state my case any clearer than that.

Nomad

[SmOke_N]

Ya well...umm...uhhh....ok you win i'm out of similes :"> :">

anyway, still respect nomad for keeping his promise. but like he said, the bank robber thing was hardly cogent.

No, I wasn't comparing Nomad as the "Bank Robber", I was comparing him to the Authority that has the right to make the decision on who is free and who isn't.

Edit:

And just so everyone knows... Read the post again... I respect that he kept his word to a "point". My point being... At what point does your word stop being a valid exscuse for the wrongs that may be caused by keeping it... If more harm comes from keeping it than not... what do you do then?

Edited July 17, 2006 by SmOke_N

[Briegel]

The holy bible says:

Who is free from guiltiness, who throw the first stone. (free translation from Briegel)

For me a given word is more important than a mistake.

I trust Nomad and I ever would drink a beer with him!

(sorry I can't say it better in english, but I want to say something to this issue)

[nitekram]

I just thought I would add my 2 cents - not that it matters.

Think of this: A person asks another person if they told them something would they promise to keep it a secret, the second person not knowing what the first person was going to say - said yes. The first person said something like (and you put anything in here you want) "last year I ran over someone and never reported it - later I found out the person died."

Just something else to think about.

[taurus905]

For me a given word is more important than a mistake.

Briegel,

Let's suppose that someone asked you for a ride to the bank and then to the airport tomorrow. And you promised them that you would do that for them. Later that night you learned that this person planned to rob the bank and fly out of the country. Would you still feel obligated to keep your word?

My point is that we all have to use good common sense and live with our decisions. We all make mistakes and that is why I feel we are on this Earth; to learn. But if you think your word to do something supercedes all else; well, you have a lot to learn. One of those things is that not everyone has honorable intensions.

taurus905

@nitekram - Good example of having to live with the consequences of your decisions.

[Paulie]

Briegel,

Let's suppose that someone asked you for a ride to the bank and then to the airport tomorrow. And you promised them that you would do that for them. Later that night you learned that this person planned to rob the bank and fly out of the country. Would you still feel obligated to keep your word?

My point is that we all have to use good common sense and live with our decisions. We all make mistakes and that is why I feel we are on this Earth; to learn. But if you think your word to do something supercedes all else; well, you have a lot to learn. One of those things is that not everyone has honorable intensions.

taurus905

@nitekram - Good example of having to live with the consequences of your decisions.

I have to say i agree to that COMPLETELY!

thats a great point taurus

[Nomad]

As I've already stated, the decision made in this situation is all dependant on what virtues you hold true to yourself. There really is no right or wrong here, only a point of view. Since you could easily spend several weeks studying the philosophical interpretations of Virtue, such as from Aristotle and Plato, and those interpretations could easily lead into more debate, I'll use the basic 8 virtues as used in a popular game I'm sure most of you know.. Ultima. (this should prove interesting)

Honesty

Compassion

Valor

Justice

Sacrifice

Honor

Spirituality

Humilty

By honoring my word, I showed Honor and Honesty, and possibly even some Sacrifice.

If I had broken my word, I would have shown Valor and Justice.

I'm not doing this because I'm worried about what anyone thinks of my decision. I stand by my decision, and I am not ashamed of it. I'm not without error as I had stated though. In the future I will not place myself into this same position again, so I don't have to worry about which choice to make.

I have always held Honor as my primary virtue in life. What virtue do you hold? That might explain how you come to your decision in this situation.

If you don't hold true to a virtue in life, then what do you hold true to? Just a thought. I rather enjoy getting into philosophy when it serves a purpose.

Edited July 17, 2006 by Nomad

[taurus905]

Honesty

Compassion

Valor

Justice

Sacrifice

Honor

Spirituality

Humilty

Nomad,

The one virtue that ties all of the above virtues together is Common Sense.

And like any other virtue, common sense comes in different quantities in all of us.

Therefore it is sometimes not all that common.

taurus905

@Paulie - Thanks for kind words.

Edited: I just wanted to add that without common sense as a virtue, the other eight mentioned here have great potential for getting oneself in trouble.

Like the saying goes, "The road to hell is paved with good intensions."

Edited July 17, 2006 by taurus905

[Nomad]

Nomad,

The one virtue that ties all of the above virtues together is Common Sense.

And like any other virtue, common sense comes in different quantities in all of us.

Therefore it is sometimes not all that common.

taurus905

@Paulie - Thanks for kind words.

Edited: I just wanted to add that without common sense as a virtue, the other eight mentioned here have great potential for getting oneself in trouble.

Like the saying goes, "The road to hell is paved with good intensions."

Common sense has nothing at all to do with this. Are you trustworthy or not? From what you've stated here, I don't think I could trust you. You would break your word simply because you discovered that you agreed to do something that you found to be questionable? Once you make an agreement, you are legally bound to that agreement. A verbal contract will hold up in court just as well as a written contract, if it can be proved the verbal contract exists. So this sense which you seem to think is common, and yet not so common, seems to me is going to end up getting you into trouble.

If you sign a lease to rent a house from a landlord. Then you discover the money you are paying for rent, is being used to buy drugs. Does that mean you no longer have to pay rent? You are providing the person with the means to commit an illegal act, but you are still bound to the rental agreement, even if the person is in jail.

I basically made a written contract to deliver what the person asked, and under the provisions of that contract, I would have been in default of that agreement if I refused given the circumstances. My mistake was not stipulating an additional term of the agreement, that the agreement was void if the item to be delivered was malware. Look at the EULA for any program. They have to specifically state each and every provision of the agreement, which is why it is so long, or they leave theirself open to situations similar to this, and could potentially get sued.

Common sense, eh?