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minxomat

Removal of PlugIn

53 posts in this topic

In the latest Stable, PlugIns were removed just because, as the changelog claims "no one uses it". That is plain wrong. People invested a lot of Work in PlugIns like the OpenGL PlugIns and Users used it. I recently based a whole new project on one of these plugins - but with 3.3.10.X i can trow that away now, since it isn't compatible anymore.

Examples:

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http://www.autoit.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=19422

http://www.autoit.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=19412

http://autoit.de/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=33063&highlight=

I'm ok with changing constants, increased size etc., but when a functionality is removed, just because someone thinks it isn't used it is just illogical. Should we remove Beep() now, because no one uses it? - Oh wait...


I will answer every single PM, and you are free to ask anything anytime.

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minx,

From the changelog:

 

"3.3.9.13 (27th July, 2013) (Beta)

AutoIt:

[...]

- Removed: PluginOpen() and PlugInClose() removed to due to not being used and never having progressed past the experimental stage"

So it seems that you had over 5 months to register your request that this feature be restored. Jos' response to your last complaint about AutoIt development post-release seems particularly apt here - I can find no trace of any previous complaint from you or anyone else about this change since it was announced, so I am afraid that I have little sympathy with you now. ;)

M23


Any of my own code posted anywhere on the forum is available for use by others without any restriction of any kind._______My UDFs:

Spoiler

ArrayMultiColSort ---- Sort arrays on multiple columns
ChooseFileFolder ---- Single and multiple selections from specified path treeview listing
Date_Time_Convert -- Easily convert date/time formats, including the language used
ExtMsgBox --------- A highly customisable replacement for MsgBox
GUIExtender -------- Extend and retract multiple sections within a GUI
GUIFrame ---------- Subdivide GUIs into many adjustable frames
GUIListViewEx ------- Insert, delete, move, drag, sort, edit and colour ListView items
GUITreeViewEx ------ Check/clear parent and child checkboxes in a TreeView
Marquee ----------- Scrolling tickertape GUIs
NoFocusLines ------- Remove the dotted focus lines from buttons, sliders, radios and checkboxes
Notify ------------- Small notifications on the edge of the display
Scrollbars ----------Automatically sized scrollbars with a single command
StringSize ---------- Automatically size controls to fit text
Toast -------------- Small GUIs which pop out of the notification area

 

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#3 ·  Posted (edited)

In my opinion, development should be really thought-out. If you change things without actually checking out how the situation is, it is imho not a good way to deal with it.

You refer to my last complaint about development and size. I was upset about the increasing size and earned a lot negative comments, but a few days later a new thread about decreasing size appeared and suddenly many users are interested in doing this. 

My only thought on this is: Develop and ask Users in advance to major changes and not remove or change things and then make them (the users) submit a restore request. You can't fix everything with a bug/feature request ^^

Another story: People even start to write their AutoIt Version numbers in the signatures (at least in our forums) due compatibility issues with the newer versions. 

 

 I can find no trace of any previous complaint

 

Complaints, 3 pages long (german): http://autoit.de/index.php?page=Thread&postID=353523#post353523

Also in that thread, UEZ mentioned that he had a restore request about the changed struct and it was rejected.

I quote:

"The constant name stays the same, but its content changes. Who came up with ****"

"Many online accessible scripts do not run anymore. Sad."

"Compatibility died with the recent versions"

Pretty harsh, but i didn't say this: "It is a riddle for me, what *** goes through the Devs heads right now [...] 3.3.10.0 is the beginning of the end of AutoIt"

Quote about development:

"Jonathan Bennett himself does not deal with us or our English-speaking colleagues. And since only he is left, the path of AutoIt is probably clear."

 

I do not agree with all of this statements. (I'd personally consider it the best, to hire new (additional) Devs or give the remaining Devs access to actual development, meaning the source)

Edited by minx

I will answer every single PM, and you are free to ask anything anytime.

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#4 ·  Posted (edited)

minx,

 

In my opinion, development should be really thought-out

Ah, now we are a bunch of complete non-thinking idiots to boot! How much more insulting would you like to get? :huh:

And by the way, 3 pages of complaints on the German forum count for absolutely nothing - this is the official AutoIt site and if you did not ask here than it just did not happen.

 

It is a riddle for me, what *** goes through the Devs heads right now [...] 3.3.10.0 is the beginning of the end of AutoIt

;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote about development:

"Jonathan Bennett himself does not deal with us or our English-speaking colleagues. And since only he is left, the path of AutoIt is probably clear."

I and many others here speak to Jon regularly about the development path of AutoIt. The fact that you do not just means that you are unaware of the development direction - we are quite clear how we would like things to progress over the next few months.

Anyway, you do realise you (and those for whom you claim to speak) come across as a bunch of spoiled brats?

 

"AutoIt is not developing along the lines that we wish - therefore it has suddenly become {insert insult of choice here}". :o

So my original response still stands. You, and anyone else, can inject comments into the development process at any time via Trac and particularly in the various Beta threads - but bear in mind that there is no guarantee that any such suggestions will be adopted. Only Jon has the final say on what is and what is not taken up - a few of my own suggestions have been rejected along the way but unlike you I am not throwing my toys out of the cot. Basically if you feel strongly enough that Autoit is dead than stop using it - I wish you luck in finding another language - but please stop complaining that it is not devloping as you wish.

Tchuss. :)

M23

Edit:

I see that the post to which I was replying has been changed quite a bit due to editing by the OP and thus some of my points are now no longer as pertinent as they were. But I am not changing my post to deal with the new text - some people should perhaps think a little more before hitting the "Submit" button rather than coming back and adding excuses 35 mins later. ;)

Edited by Melba23

Any of my own code posted anywhere on the forum is available for use by others without any restriction of any kind._______My UDFs:

Spoiler

ArrayMultiColSort ---- Sort arrays on multiple columns
ChooseFileFolder ---- Single and multiple selections from specified path treeview listing
Date_Time_Convert -- Easily convert date/time formats, including the language used
ExtMsgBox --------- A highly customisable replacement for MsgBox
GUIExtender -------- Extend and retract multiple sections within a GUI
GUIFrame ---------- Subdivide GUIs into many adjustable frames
GUIListViewEx ------- Insert, delete, move, drag, sort, edit and colour ListView items
GUITreeViewEx ------ Check/clear parent and child checkboxes in a TreeView
Marquee ----------- Scrolling tickertape GUIs
NoFocusLines ------- Remove the dotted focus lines from buttons, sliders, radios and checkboxes
Notify ------------- Small notifications on the edge of the display
Scrollbars ----------Automatically sized scrollbars with a single command
StringSize ---------- Automatically size controls to fit text
Toast -------------- Small GUIs which pop out of the notification area

 

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That 3 (which is actually 7 pages) pages of complaints only 2 people said anything about plugins, that I saw, and you were one of them, so what exactly was the point of linking to it?


If I posted any code, assume that code was written using the latest release version unless stated otherwise. Also, if it doesn't work on XP I can't help with that because I don't have access to XP, and I'm not going to.
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I remember the plugin mechanism. It was inferior and I was all for removing it. Just make a standard dll if you really need to write it outside of AutoIt.

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I remember the plugin mechanism. It was inferior and I was all for removing it. Just make a standard dll if you really need to write it outside of AutoIt.

Since we already came to the conclusion that the size of AutoIt doesn't really matter is there any reason for removing it except the plugin mechanism being inferior? What's wrong with a feature staying experimental?

Regards

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Since we already came to the conclusion that the size of AutoIt doesn't really matter is there any reason for removing it except the plugin mechanism being inferior? What's wrong with a feature staying experimental?

Regards

The code was kind of a hack in to the internal function list. The code is improved in stability by having it removed.

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The code was kind of a hack in to the internal function list. The code is improved in stability by having it removed.

That is not true.

And remark about improved stability is valid only from philosophical aspect. If you define the more stable code as code with lesser functionality then yes, general code stability is improved. But that would also mean that the most stable code would be no_code or simple comment.

Late great David Huffman was able to reduce the whole computer to one logic gate that way. It worked, though not much.

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eMyvnE

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As far as i seen if i remamber correctly A.P. created irrlicht au3 script to iniciate plugin dll to call original dll (if i understudf that correctly).

Accessing, in this case irrlicht, can be done with objects (thatone may be harder part coz of all pointers itl need to handle from autoit script part but on some lvl its possible, maybe not completely, but still possible), or easyer way writing funcs so that they can b called from standerd dllcall.

im wondering did plugin worked faster than dllcall and objects? actualy i never seen plugin code side from dll and i dont even know do it need more or less knolage to make it comparing to func to write so that dllcall can use them.


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Afaik if you have a Plugin DLL you can call the functions like build in functions without any wrapper functions. You only needed PluginOpen() and directives to let the AutoItWrapper know what functions are available. The type conversion is build in this Plugin DLL. I don't think Plugin DLLs were faster than common DLLs, I think it's nearly the same speed. There is only a little conversion overhead, but no wrapper function.


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#13 ·  Posted (edited)

yes but from what i read on forums today (posts and code), plugin still needs to be created by some user. and that do involve working and calling external funcs from plugin dll to original dll and instead writing func parametars in autoit you do it in plugin code.

i gota agree with Richard Robertson "inferior" statment in case if you have source and funcs arnt exposed.

edit: or there is something (other than expose dll) im missing that plugin can do and autoit cant on its own?

Edited by bogQ

TCP server and client - Learning about TCP servers and clients connection
Au3 oIrrlicht - Irrlicht project
Au3impact - Another 3D DLL game engine for autoit. (3impact 3Drad related)



460px-Thief-4-temp-banner.jpg
There are those that believe that the perfect heist lies in the preparation.
Some say that it’s all in the timing, seizing the right opportunity. Others even say it’s the ability to leave no trace behind, be a ghost.

 

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Don't cry over spilled and in this case breast milk.

Plugin story is over. It was decision made by Jon so blah, it is what it is. What I fell sorry about is/are developers who got fucked up, nothing else.

Plugin idea was wrong from day one, not because of some inferiorness (quite the opposite) but because AutoIt is not that kind of software. Its audience is wrong if nothing else.

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Removal of PlugIn, I don't care that much like someone elsehere. :sweating:

I'm never use it in my live!

But I think the other feature like Volatile Func for synchronous COM event, I wish

that feature shall be here as not an Experimental Feature, I fear that will be removed in near future. :ermm:

Cause that what I expect to so called feature long-long.......... ago in this AutoIt3 scripting language.

>COM Events Handling | Flow of the Process

Even I don't go to Feature Request.

Maybe, someone else request it, or Jon by accidentally want to add Volatile feature.


# Button. Progressbar - Graphical AutoIt3 Control (UDF) # GTK on AutoIt3 - GTK+ Framework | Widgets

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You're missing out on a lot then!

Not much - even microsoft don't send cakes to mozilla-team anymore :shifty:

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I, for one, and f****d by this. I only update AutoIt when I have another batch of updates to do. I come along today to grab the ltest version of my beloved API and WHAM!

Seriously guys? This is scandalous!

;o) Cor


nothing is foolproof to the sufficiently talented fool..

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I, for one, and f****d by this. I only update AutoIt when I have another batch of updates to do. I come along today to grab the ltest version of my beloved API and WHAM!

Seriously guys? This is scandalous!

;o) Cor

Mop up the spilt milk and find another way.


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Updated: 04/09/2015

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The decision to remove plugin functions was announced months ago.

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